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» 2019 Llanfair TH Village Fete
Align/Hyper 50 Empty2019-07-12, 18:53 by Rich

» Proposals for Model aircraft flying ( CAA registration) April 2019
Align/Hyper 50 Empty2019-05-08, 17:49 by Gary M Jones

» Police crash
Align/Hyper 50 Empty2019-04-14, 15:36 by Roy

» Bit of indoors
Align/Hyper 50 Empty2019-04-13, 16:49 by Roy

» For Sale
Align/Hyper 50 Empty2019-03-03, 23:44 by Charles E Cornes

Saturday 7/7/18

2018-07-07, 21:07 by Gary M Jones

I was at the field today between 14:00 & 15:00 all on my own , good flying too. There is a dead sheep along the fence line towards the gate from the pits, I saw the farmer so reported this to her. I hope no one had plans for a BBQ Smile .

Farmer …

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Align/Hyper 50

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-11, 23:02

Just finished the strip down on Zaids Hyper 50. Use less thread lock next time buddy Exclamation

The reason for the strip down was to find the cause of va vibration in the helicopter which I think is effecting the gyro.

One bolt sheared on the engine mounting and that will have to be removed with a bit of heat in the morning. Crying or Very sad

Align/Hyper 50 Hyperbearings002

Align/Hyper 50 Hyperbearings003

Here is what I found. The rear bearing is discoulered and feels rough whilst the front bearing whilst looking OK feels even rougher. New bearings will be on order in the morning

Hope this sorts out the problem. The piston and linner look great with very little blow back past the ring. Whenever I strip an engine I always remeber a coinversation I had a few years ago with John Haytree an engine guru from Devon. We talked about bearings and what precautions should be taken when laying up and he finished the conversation by saying "of course bearings in model engines should always be treated as consumables and be changed on a regular basis" I thought at the time that he was trying to drum up bussiness but now I agree.

Glad in a way that they are knackered as that justifies the strip down. Very Happy


DaveS

PS Mark can we have a spell checker on the forum please.

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Brian Colclough on 2009-06-12, 08:20

Dave did you measure the bearings? are they imperial sizes as on the OS 50 aero motor? just curious Wink They certainly were consumables on my OS 50 it got through more bearings than any other motor I've had, it's sitting on my bench up in the loft waiting for, you've guessed it, another set of bearings. I think it's going to wait a long time Suspect specially as I don't have a model for it Wink

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-12, 11:18

THe rear bearing is 28mm OD - 15mm ID

DaveS

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Brian Colclough on 2009-06-12, 11:32

Might be worth trying ceramics unless they're too expensive or made from "unobtainium" Wink

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Andy Sayle on 2009-06-12, 11:49

It looks like that rear bearing has got a bit warm!!!

Andy

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-12, 12:11

bearing damage/corrosion
Wash and rinse with light oil every session
Paul Q


Last edited by PDQ on 2009-06-12, 22:44; edited 2 times in total

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Andy Sayle on 2009-06-12, 12:43

Usually bearing discolouration is not down to corrosion though. Discolouration is usually caused by the bearings getting a bit hot, and the environment they are running in (i.e. fuel and oil and air in this case) causing a build up of residue, possibly down to the lubricant used. The residue build up can then cause stuck balls (oo-err!), excessive friction and therefore excessive wear and "roughness".

The discolouration looks quite even and consistent on that rear bearing. Corrosion is very rarely even and consistent, unless it is severe corrosion, and the whole thing is basically just rust!

I'm pretty certain that Zaidy runs his engines "dry" after use, which would eliminate the majority of the nasty methanol and Nitromethane from the engine, just leaving behind the residual oil that is present in the bearings. This should be enough for a break in flying of a week or so, but perhaps not for a winter layup... That said, perhaps this is an example of needing a dash of afterun oil squirting in the engine after each days flying?

I completely agree about the cheapy bearings though. The fact the front bearing is shot, without being discoloured, would lead me to think that the bearing was either under-specced (in terms of load rating, or speed rating), or has suffered some kind of impact damage. I've actually had a similar experience of some guide roller bearings I specced for a production machine. The supplier charged a fortune, and sent us cheap, no-name chinese tat. Branded Chinese tat, I could live with, but no-name tat?! No chance!

Cheers
Andy

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Rich on 2009-06-12, 13:13

It looks like Andy S & PDQ are setting off on a marathon to see who can write the most useless load of s**te that no one has even the slightest incline to read.

Has Andy finally met his match..!!!

keep up the good work I'm sure one of you will get bored soon enough Very Happy Exclamation
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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Andy Sayle on 2009-06-12, 13:21

I've finished now Laughing

Andy

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-12, 14:58

Thanks Rich
You'r absolutely right
It did go on a bit.
Some of us excel at "boring"
PQ


Last edited by PDQ on 2009-06-13, 09:32; edited 8 times in total

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Mark Barnes on 2009-06-12, 15:03

Rich wrote:It looks like Andy S & PDQ are setting off on a marathon to see who can write the most useless load of s**te that no one has even the slightest incline to read.

Has Andy finally met his match..!!!

keep up the good work I'm sure one of you will get bored soon enough Very Happy Exclamation

TOP POST! nearly fell of my chair Very Happy Paul there was no need what so ever to edit your post! Just abit of freindly banter

M
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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-12, 17:09

No comment

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Rich on 2009-06-12, 17:25

Like BB says just a heavy bit of banter, makes the boring life a little easier to swallow

"no offence intended"


Last edited by Rich on 2009-06-12, 22:48; edited 1 time in total
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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-12, 17:39

wish I knew what you all were talking about.Some of us are completly stupid.or at least we feel that way... still can not get a buddy lead to even work Laughing


Last edited by johnoxleydean on 2009-06-12, 17:42; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding comment)

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Andy Sayle on 2009-06-12, 23:41

John, Have a word with Tim (Mackay). He has got a DX6i, and I'm sure he has used it as a buddy. If not, I'm sure he'll know about it Smile

Cheers
Andy

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Zaidy on 2009-06-13, 09:26

Okay I see that Dave, you are a top man for doing it :-) mate.
That engine have never been run lean, if anything its on the rich side, so I can't understand why the bearings are like that. confused

Regards

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Zaidy on 2009-06-13, 09:30

Andy Sayle wrote:Usually bearing discolouration is not down to corrosion though. Discolouration is usually caused by the bearings getting a bit hot, and the environment they are running in (i.e. fuel and oil and air in this case) causing a build up of residue, possibly down to the lubricant used. The residue build up can then cause stuck balls (oo-err!), excessive friction and therefore excessive wear and "roughness".

The discolouration looks quite even and consistent on that rear bearing. Corrosion is very rarely even and consistent, unless it is severe corrosion, and the whole thing is basically just rust!

I'm pretty certain that Zaidy runs his engines "dry" after use, which would eliminate the majority of the nasty methanol and Nitromethane from the engine, just leaving behind the residual oil that is present in the bearings. This should be enough for a break in flying of a week or so, but perhaps not for a winter layup... That said, perhaps this is an example of needing a dash of afterun oil squirting in the engine after each days flying?

I completely agree about the cheapy bearings though. The fact the front bearing is shot, without being discoloured, would lead me to think that the bearing was either under-specced (in terms of load rating, or speed rating), or has suffered some kind of impact damage. I've actually had a similar experience of some guide roller bearings I specced for a production machine. The supplier charged a fortune, and sent us cheap, no-name chinese tat. Branded Chinese tat, I could live with, but no-name tat?! No chance!

Cheers
Andy

Andy
You are correct, I do run the engine dry after every flying session. As stated before that engine since starting life have been run, slightly rich (never lean)

Regards
Zaidy

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Zaidy on 2009-06-13, 09:34

Mark Barnes wrote:
Rich wrote:It looks like Andy S & PDQ are setting off on a marathon to see who can write the most useless load of s**te that no one has even the slightest incline to read.

Has Andy finally met his match..!!!

keep up the good work I'm sure one of you will get bored soon enough Very Happy Exclamation

TOP POST! nearly fell of my chair Very Happy Paul there was no need what so ever to edit your post! Just abit of freindly banter

M

Mark can you please remove the edit option, as I didn't read PDQ post before editing, so I can't understand Rich's comment about the most boring post ? I would like to make my own decision on that Suspect cheers

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-13, 10:27

Zaidy
The edited post you didn't see
Perhaps Mark can reinstate it for you from the forum backup file.
Paul Q


Last edited by PDQ on 2009-06-13, 18:29; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Message shrtened)

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-13, 11:22

Going Electric Smile

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Zaidy on 2009-06-13, 20:54

Okay thanks Paul.

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-15, 10:20

Zaidy
Your not alone with OS50 Hyper bearing damage

Rear bearing 15X28X7 (S6902 in stainless) 15 ID, 28 OD, 7 Wide
There is also a SS ring ceramic ball version too.
Or 6902 standard.
This is a "light" grade bearing. Also used in 46FX-H, 46VX-M,50SX-H and 55AX
There is negligible axial load but a large radilal one from primary and secondary components.
These increases as the speed squared.

Brian C commented his OS 50 engine had bearing failures
Andy S commented rear bearing looked overheated

Plenty of information about OS50 Hyper bearing problems...
Have a look at
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t513949p1/


and in google
hyper crankshaft modification

Suggestion
Engine rear bearing failed and seized ....(known problem)
followed by
Recovery, crankshaft driven by flywheel stored energy, skidded in locked inner ring

Fact
The stored energy of a 50 engine/flyweheel spinning at 13,000 is massive
The rear and front bearings were damaged
The paddle shaft ends were forced forwards

Suggestion
The rear bearing seized but the stored energy still spun the engine
The speed faltered but then recovered once the shaft slipped in the locked inner ring
(If this did happen, then the shaft will now be undersize at rear bearing)
look for loose fit of shaft in a new bearing... usually a light interference cold when new)
The hesitation and recovery caused the blades to swing forwards

Conclusion
The bent paddle shaft was only a symptom of the main problem

You DID have a very lucky escape

The Cure
Change the Hyper bearings frequently as described on runryder
And maybe get the crank web modified


Last edited by PDQ on 2009-06-20, 10:05; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : tidied up)

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-15, 11:00

Zaidy
apparently the crank mod doesn't solve the problem
See this one
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg227/24515-os-50-hyper-not-runing-good-2.html

One guy (he's an American!) reckons the bearing is undersize (load rating) for this particular engine

Normally bearings are selected to have a "B10" life
This means that, statistically, out of a sample of bearings selected to do a job ....like car wheel bearings
10% will fail within the expected time to failure. Used to be 80,000 miles.
And the rest ? well there will be some superstars.
Bit like fuses really, how do you select a good one ?

Worth choosing a good make to start with and pay a little more.
Fag SKF are OK. OS oriiginal pack OK, Midland Helicopters do stock and sell these.
Beware agents who may, without deliberately trying to rob you, be selling poor quality equivalents.


Last edited by PDQ on 2009-06-17, 07:34; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Tided up)

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Zaidy on 2009-06-16, 23:15

Thanks for that Paul, will start looking into it

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Align/Hyper 50 Empty Re: Align/Hyper 50

Post by Guest on 2009-06-17, 07:37

Zaidy
I've edited the 2 posts slightly (bit more info)

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